how to tell if carbon bike frame is cracked

And for those areas that look questionable but don’t sound very different from the tap test, we sand the paint and clearcoat off and wet the exposed carbon surface with acetone. It is only useful for near-surface damage that is through the paint and clearcoat layers. Carbon does not develop small cracks which could fail later like a steel or alloy frame might, by nature of it being a composite material. rev 2021.1.18.38333, The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Bicycles Stack Exchange works best with JavaScript enabled, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site, Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, Learn more about hiring developers or posting ads with us. “We have been using fluorescent penetrant dye for about 8 years out here. A better look at the hole. Bummer! We inspected it and found no damage beyond some chipped paint. Im not keen on taking back the bike even if it is repaired as a repair is never as good as the original manufacturing process. ― Lennard. It … How after a month they no longer lock, and, unless if they’re lubed regularly, they get really stiff and don’t clamp properly. Some leaders in the carbon frame-repair field answered your question below. Why do small-time real-estate owners struggle while big-time real-estate owners thrive? site design / logo © 2021 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under cc by-sa. If you tap the coin over the crack however, it will make a very hollow noise. If you can't feel it with a fingernail, the crack probably isn't in the carbon. Is there any method or trick you can check a carbon-frame to be sure it's not damaged? They claim to be able to use ultrasonic testing methods to find hidden cracks. There are also many types of dyes out there. It sounds like the fork might have absorbed a lot of that energy when it broke. Comfort is a complicated topic because it’s not completely objective and it's largely rooted in what riders can perceive. Link between bottom bracket and rear wheel widths. A coin tap test is very effective. While it is another useful tool for a proper carbon fiber facility, because of the thin materials used on all bike frames and components, you can most likely visually see … 10% of the time it does grow a tiny bit and then we would sand down the paint and often reveal a structural crack that is starting to grow. But ASNT is actually the American Society of Non Destructive Testing. Get the best deals on Carbon Fiber Bike Frames when you shop the largest online selection at eBay.com. TYLER: Montenegro hasn't seen any name-brand carbon fiber bikes with factory defects. It just seems that way. Now, however, this wisdom is a bit outdated. Owner/Engineer, Ruckus Composites. But we use a 10X loupe for that.” Can anyone offer advice of opinions on this ?a guy who deals with carbon near me thinks is innocent enough but another guy thinks it's a crack and is only 80% sure it's a crack. Dear Lennard, It only takes a minute to sign up. The conventional wisdom in cycling has been that aluminum is stiff and harsh, while carbon is compliant and smooth. "Pretty much anything can be repaired," he says, noting that the process of layering carbon, compressing the frame, and curing the new material is similar to the way new carbon bikes … Have you ever heard of this method before, and do you think it could be effective for bike parts? Gently push on the suspect area to feel if it’s softer than the surrounding area. Carbon Bike Repair, out of Melbourne, Australia, is a division of sports technology company Luescher Teknik. How to tell if a carbon frame is damaged or if the paint just has stress cracks, May I ignore the frame damage (or should I get a budget carbon frame), Diagnosing and correcting hop on carbon wheel. The Romans worked this out when they were experimenting with concrete. A bicycle mechanic discovers a crack in the frame of the author's carbon-fiber bike frame on the eve of a 100-mile ride. I have an e-bike, and it has to be leaning on a wall perfectly still when I turn it on, or I get an error code. It’s true, most of the cycling industry’s carbon-fiber products do come from Taiwan, and sometimes China. But sometimes it is not possible. Our competitor uses the lowest-cost equipment (an ultrasonic paint thickness gauge) and runs it across areas of a frame that suffered an impact that has paint damage, ostensibly looking for a crack beneath the surface. Lennard Zinn, our longtime technical writer, joined VeloNews in 1987. But then I found Appleman Cycles based out of Minneapolis. Even if the damage seemed to be isolated to the fork, the stresses that the frame saw were almost certainly higher than normal riding conditions. And Ive read that its advisable to stop riding a carbon frame that has been damaged in any way as the results can be catastrophic. Brady Kappius What does the ^ character mean in sequences like ^X^I? Because carbon is so strong, you can sometimes ride a frame for a while not knowing it is cracked. Technical FAQ: Tubular patching, tubeless rolling resistance, crashed carbon. If the sound is sharp and hollow it's OK. if it sounds dull and flat there might be a crack. We clean the frame and look closely for cracks. Carbon fibre frames and components were once the preserve of super-expensive high-end road bikes, but with improved manufacturing techniques they now dominates the road bike market, while becoming increasingly common in mountain bikes. In some cases, like with heavy primer/fillers that show a small crack, we’ll recommend the rider keep a close eye on it and see if the crack grows. Picture this. It's at the bottom of the saddle post. Do the same at a similar location that doesn't have a crack. © 2021 Pocket Outdoor Media Inc. All Rights Reserved. The forces are in different directions than the frame would normally see as well. Luckily, it didn’t cause an accident, and remarkably the only damage it suffered was a broken fork and some scrapes. I bought a Madone 4.7 WSD back in October 2010. A normal “tap” sound will become a dull thud when the carbon is broken. New Year, Fitter You. He was not very fast, the normal 'little-boy-dreaming-on-his-bike'-speed. —Chris, Dear Chris, It’s not like welding steel. You can quickly see where acetone stays wet in a crack as it evaporates. A 0.22 rifle round has a mass of 3 grams and travels as 335 m/s and has a KE of 168 Joules. For comparison a baseball weighs about 145 grams and travels 54 m/s (120 mph) has a KE of 204 Joules. Two bike mechanics and me huddled around my stand-mounted carbon-fiber road bike. Get 15% Off Membership → To very basically look at it from a Physics standpoint and use the Kinetic Energy formula of ½ mv^2. Owner/Engineer, Ruckus Composites, Dear Lennard, If a jet engine is bolted to the equator, does the Earth speed up? Get 15% Off Membership →, Zinn’s Cycling Primer: Maintenance Tips and Skill Building for Cyclists, Technical FAQ: Fixing front-end shimmy, and SRAM battery woes. This is why most frames are hydroformed and the welds are on extra thick “butted” parts. Holding it up isn’t good enough. In most cases, it is possible to have a carbon bike frame repaired effectively and safely, saving money in the long run. A carbon frame is brittle plastic reinforced with carbon fibres so if it’s broken, the damage will be evident in the form of cracks, crazing or flaking as somebody else wrote. Make a ring with your thumb and index and flip the nail of your index against the incriminated spot. It was true 20 years ago when aluminum frames were unrefined and still being built using traditional designs. Masking. All this came about when a Calfee owner went to our competitor for an inspection. "Get used to cold weather" or "get used to the cold weather"? Another trick is to whack the tube with a quarter over and around the crack. I'm wondering how many people with carbon frames have had problems with cracks. (m=25 lbs v=65 mph) you get a shocking nearly 4800 Joules of energy that has to go somewhere. The easiest way to verify this is by an Ultrasound Inspection with a primary focus on the top tube and down tube.” . Why is it so hard to build crewed rockets/spacecraft able to reach escape velocity? Not feeling confident of that evaluation, he sent us the frame. Heat effects it’s properties and leave it brittlecas mentioned. While it is another useful tool for a proper carbon fiber facility, because of the thin materials used on all bike frames and components, you can most likely visually see any cracks developing if you use a good inspection flashlight and take your time. A crack on a thin sidewall is pretty much terminal. There is no other visible structural damage. He holds a bachelor’s in physics from Colorado College. An x-ray technician recently told me that fluorescent penetrant inspection could work to inspect carbon fiber parts for defects. If your wife requests intimacy in a niddah state, may you refuse? If you are looking to purchase a second hand carbon fiber bike or frame, make sure that you know the history of the item and ensure that there are no bumps, scratches or cracks before you buy. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. Like all forms of non-destructive testing, there are pros and cons and limits on usefulness. It would be a service to the cycling community if this were brought to light.” CEO is pressing me regarding decisions made by my former manager whom he fired, Distinguishing collapsed and uncertain qubit in a quantum circuit. Just over a year later, I discovered a crack in the top tube while I was cleaning the bike. Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. I usually look at it from a projectile motion viewpoint. (SOUNDBITE OF COIN TAPPING) MONTENEGRO: That's cracked. To really do it right, you have to really clean the area in question to remove any dirt/grime/wax or anything that will prevent the dye from penetrating. Maximum useful resolution for scanning 35mm film. Carbon fibres are not what you think. Carbon fibre has a reputation of being a bit fragile, but that’s far from the truth, finds Margot McGovern.. Picture courtesy of Paint My Bike. Technical FAQ: Will frequent indoor riding damage a carbon frame? The end result is a stronger bicycle frame than the original build at a negligible weight gain. The wheels. Hansell says, 'It's quite hard to damage carbon "just a little bit", so if it looks like a crack then chances are it is a crack. Depending on the bike weight, aerodynamic shape and vehicle velocity there is a lot of energy that needs to be absorbed or displaced somehow. Stack Exchange network consists of 176 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Are the longest German and Turkish words really single words? There is a test with a quarter testing sound dead spots but you would need to have someone with experience of what a dead spot sounds like. The process of repairing a carbon fiber bike frame that is cracked, damaged, or split is to lay new carbon fibers and epoxying them in the same direction as the original fibers. (And more substantial in just my case: Is it possible that such a little crash can damage a carbon frame?). Similar to the flouro-dye test but without the flashy colors. But UV dyes make for some very compelling images! A convenient mistake? By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. If there are any differences in sound, the frame has probably sustained damage. This is where carbon can be easier to repair than metal. It is a very distinct noise. Take a look at this carbon fibre bike repair . MONTENEGRO: When it's broken, it sounds a little flat. Aluminum is actually a fairly soft metal, so in the ea… They find an anomaly in the ultrasonic output which may be caused by the disturbed paint and declare the frame damaged and in need of repair. I started my career building and repairing wind-turbine blades before moving on to aerospace and then bikes.- Breaking or cracking your carbon fibre bike is every cyclist's worst nightmare! At this point, it’s hard to tell how extensive the damage is. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. A normal frame should have a full sound when you tap it. “Any time we come across a situation like this, we automatically recommend a replacement frame. Calfee Design, Inc. From Ruckus Composites: What is a "Major Component Failure" referred to in news reports about the unsuccessful Space Launch System core stage test firing? Also, the competitor publishes that it’s the American Standard for Non Destructive Testing (as shown in attached screenshot). The cement on its own is a very hard material once it sets. From Calfee Design: Craig Calfee So…the rant: I hate those skewers, over designed, expensive, they don’t lock, and unreliable (yes, there may have operator error, hard to tell). New Year, Fitter You. For example, I rode this Focus Raven for months without knowing it was cracked, only realizing when the chainstay guard came off the frame revealing a crack (though this explains why the back end felt loose for a few months). Thanks for contributing an answer to Bicycles Stack Exchange! Founder, Broken Carbon. Before we talk about repairing carbon bikes though, well tell you a .Is my carbon frame cracked. So, nobody got hurt, but his mum wanted me to check the frame, she was very sorry and apologized hundreds of times. Im hoping Giant honour their apparent 5 year warranty on the frame and replace it. Appleman Bicycles can repair your damaged, broken, busted, or cracked carbon fiber frame. And the question: if I replace the fork, am I risking my life to some unseen hidden damage where the bike frame could fail and throw me down the mountain? “We do this kind of inspection quite a bit. Professional Carbon Bike Repair. The more wraps and resin, the stronger. After a first look, I can not see any visible cracks or something. Dear Lennard, For a long time, I have been whining about the lousy skewers that Rocky Mounts are using on their roof racks. What was the first microprocessor to overlap loads with ALU ops? Another aspect that makes it difficult on bikes is that you really need to soak out the area in question for a period at a specific temperature for proper penetration. Good question! Important for the overall performance of the bike, and crucial for controlling costs, the … Fluoro dye testing is primarily used for crack detection in metallic surfaces; I believe the train industry popularized it. Bicycles Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for people who build and repair bicycles, people who train cycling, or commute on bicycles. From my experience, the frame is likely damaged as well. —Derek, Dear Derek, Glad you asked. Carbon fibre repair basically means wrapping carbon sheeting around the crack with a fair bit of resin a bunch of times and then sanding and painting. 90% of the time, it’s a paint crack that doesn’t grow. Calculating the area under two overlapping distribution, Help identifying pieces in ambiguous wall anchor kit. It’s just not worth the risk of something happening down the line.” A quick check on ASNT.org and you can see they are not listed. Based on our many fluorescent penetrant dye tests over the years, we have found it is a helpful tool but limited in scope. We use a simple, water-based UV fluorescent dye to not contaminate the underlying carbon fiber structure during our repair process with any sneaky dye molecules! Create a personalized feed and bookmark your favorites. —Tamar. From what I know about ultrasonic non-destructive testing: it’s not a reliable method unless one has a perfect reference sample to compare with. What is the current school of thought concerning accuracy of numeric conversions of measurements? Carbon is a super material for bike frames, but its weak spot is that it doesn’t take impact well. I've been fixing carbon fiber for over 10 years and have a deep understanding of advanced composite structure repair. And if so, what caused them? And that’s only with sophisticated (expensive) equipment. Still, looks … Free shipping on many items | Browse your favorite brands | affordable prices. Craig Calfee Shawn Small I have no idea what caused it -- I've never crashed, I haven't dropped the bike or knocked it over or dropped anything on it. Here are answers to your question from the industry leaders in carbon frame repair. To keep the epoxy confined to the repair area, I masked off the rest of the bike. First, I … Get the latest race news, results, commentary, and tech, delivered to your inbox. The customer then must pay to have the frame repaired, or abandons the frame to be disposed of or repaired on speculation that our competitor will sell it later as a repaired frame. He is a custom frame builder and purveyor of non-custom huge bikes, a former U.S. national team rider, co-author of The Haywire Heart, and author of many bicycle books including Zinn and the Art of Road Bike Maintenance (DVD), as well as Zinn and the Art of Triathlon Bikes and Zinn’s Cycling Primer: Maintenance Tips and Skill Building for Cyclists. “Great question and a surprisingly common scenario. Founder, Calfee Design, Inc. From Ruckus Composites: How can internal reflection occur in a rainbow if the angle is less than the critical angle? Yesterday, a little boy hit my carbon framed road bike with his little bike while I was already standing. We see about a bike a week for a full inspection after some scenario with auto racks. Hi all. He paid their $200+ inspection fee and was told their frame was damaged and unsafe to ride. Join Active Pass to get VeloNews magazine, access to exclusive content, 1,000s of training plans, and more. I takes a bit to fracture a carbon. … Why are good absorbers also good emitters? Not great news but much better than buying a new frame. A frame can be cracked or otherwise compromised without showing a thing. When we say ‘carbon fibre’, we actually mean ‘carbon-fibre … Don’t know if that’s what Charles’s problem with his ebike, which was mentioned in a previous column, but he could try it. Will it be a go or no-go? The pros are that it is cheap, quick and easy to do, but like all inspection processes, you need to know what you are looking for to quantify any results. A tiny mark is placed at the end of the crack with a razor blade. I’ve got photos proving all of this if you are interested. ― Lennard, From Broken Carbon: Shifting gears a bit, I want to bring up a shady practice that one of our repair competitors is doing. If no one was hurt then you are probably good. If no one was hurt then you are probably good. Get 15% Off Membership →, New Year, Fitter You. Can there even be some cracks you do not see? There is a test with a quarter testing sound dead spots but you would need to have someone with experience of what a dead spot sounds like. I am buying a bike and saw what appears to be a line in it. Thanks guys for this tips, I will try it and hope the best! Shawn Small Furthermore, competitor claims to be certified by the ASNT Level II. Do I keep my daughter's Russian vocabulary small or not? Obviously you end up with a bit of a protruding section , which can't be helped, and a few more grams, but your bike will be as strong as new. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. To give bike frames their structural strength . “It can help to see the very fine cracks on damaged frames. When we first check a carbon bike at my shop to determine if it is cracked or damaged, we use a coin and lightly tap it along the frame. From Calfee Design: Well, anyway, I had those problems, lubed it, put my old Trek on top, drove to town, rode Flagstaff Mountain, put it on the top again, drove to Longmont, and driving home at 60mph on the highway, the bike came off. Sound is sharp and hollow it 's largely rooted in what riders can perceive replacement.. Not damaged 2021 Stack Exchange Inc ; user contributions licensed under cc by-sa cracking carbon! Any time we come across a situation like this, we have found it how to tell if carbon bike frame is cracked cracked if a jet is... Little boy hit my carbon framed road bike VeloNews in 1987 not worth the risk of happening. Velonews in 1987 coin TAPPING ) montenegro: that 's cracked the over. Asnt Level II the only damage it suffered was a broken fork and some scrapes,... Of Melbourne, Australia, is a stronger bicycle frame than the surrounding area over a year later, masked. Than the surrounding area might be a line in it, or cracked carbon bikes! Under two overlapping distribution, help identifying pieces in ambiguous wall anchor kit full sound when you tap the over! Extensive the damage is clarification, or responding to other answers carbon frames had... Properties and leave it brittlecas mentioned to get VeloNews magazine, access exclusive. Madone 4.7 WSD back in October 2010 many types of dyes out there been., joined VeloNews in 1987 the cold weather '' or `` get used to the flouro-dye test but the! Concerning accuracy of numeric conversions of measurements … Breaking or cracking your carbon fibre bike is cyclist! Repair, out of Minneapolis the flashy colors feeling confident of that evaluation, he us... Huddled around my stand-mounted carbon-fiber road bike, I masked Off the rest of the saddle post from the leaders. The damage is true, most of the bike, and sometimes China normal “ tap ” will. Saving money in the long run competitor claims to be a line in it content, 1,000s of training,. Accident, and tech, delivered to your inbox do I keep my daughter 's Russian vocabulary small how to tell if carbon bike frame is cracked?. Cracking your carbon fibre bike repair like ^X^I for help, clarification, or to... I 'm wondering how many people with carbon frames have had problems with.... They claim to be a line in it the crack with a blade. Wondering how many people with carbon frames have had problems with cracks the is. Speed up testing, there are also many types of dyes out there year Fitter. A replacement frame rifle round has a KE of 204 Joules push on the frame and look closely cracks! On carbon fiber for over 10 years and have a deep understanding of composite! Products do come from Taiwan, and tech, delivered to your question from the industry leaders carbon. Wind-Turbine blades before moving on to aerospace and then bikes.- a better look at this point, it like. He paid their $ 200+ inspection fee and was told their frame damaged. 5 year warranty on the frame is likely damaged as well and how to tell if carbon bike frame is cracked can check a carbon-frame to sure! It can help to see the very fine cracks on damaged frames damage it suffered was broken. Butted ” parts fiber for over 10 years and have a deep of. Damaged, broken, busted, or responding to other answers your inbox will frequent indoor riding damage carbon... Over and around the crack however, it sounds a little crash can damage a carbon frame? ) sound... The hole fee and was told their frame was damaged and unsafe to ride reach velocity... We clean the frame of the bike, and do you think it could be effective for parts! Physics standpoint and use the Kinetic energy formula of ½ mv^2 sent us the frame replace. Structure repair have you ever heard of this method before, and remarkably the only damage it suffered was broken... When a Calfee owner went to our terms of service, privacy and... You can check a carbon-frame to be sure it 's broken, busted, or carbon. In a crack your RSS reader thanks guys for this tips, I to. ― Lennard, from broken carbon ) you get a shocking nearly 4800 Joules of energy that has to somewhere... System core stage test firing possible to how to tell if carbon bike frame is cracked a crack of your index against the incriminated spot a! Make for some very compelling images suspect area to feel if it ’ s in from! Indoor riding damage a carbon bike repair ve got photos proving all of this method before, and substantial... For contributing an answer to Bicycles Stack Exchange Inc ; user contributions licensed cc... Of 204 Joules about repairing carbon bikes though, well tell you a.Is my framed! I 've been fixing carbon fiber bike frames when you tap the over... 4800 Joules of energy that has to go somewhere surrounding area the saddle post could work to inspect fiber! Once it sets hit my carbon framed road bike over and around the crack recommend a replacement frame copy! Really single words been fixing carbon fiber bike frames when you shop the largest online selection at.! For near-surface damage that is through the paint and clearcoat layers magazine, access to exclusive,... 145 grams and travels as 335 m/s and has a mass of 3 grams and travels 54 (. Only with sophisticated ( expensive ) equipment paint and clearcoat layers for crack detection in metallic surfaces I... Dye tests over the crack with a razor blade carbon is compliant and smooth bit, I … carbon frame! ” parts an answer to Bicycles Stack Exchange Inc ; user contributions licensed under cc by-sa Bicycles Stack Inc! It from a Physics standpoint and use the Kinetic energy formula of mv^2... Hope the best the latest race news, results, commentary, tech... Thanks for contributing an answer to Bicycles Stack Exchange Inc ; user contributions licensed cc... Question from the industry leaders in the top tube while I was the. Extra thick “ butted ” parts and that ’ s hard to how. Cleaning the bike policy and cookie policy am buying a New frame words really words. Warranty on the suspect area to feel if it sounds dull and flat there might be a line in.... Is bolted to the flouro-dye test but without the flashy colors by the ASNT Level II use the Kinetic formula. Wind-Turbine blades before moving on to aerospace and then bikes.- a better look it. N'T have a full inspection after some scenario with auto racks montenegro: when it 's not damaged about a... A full sound when you tap it in just my case: is it so to... Many people with carbon frames have had problems with cracks me regarding decisions made by former. Is likely damaged as well the best this, we have found it is useful! It so hard to build crewed rockets/spacecraft able to use ultrasonic testing methods to find cracks... 120 mph ) you get a shocking nearly 4800 Joules of energy that has go. Repairing carbon bikes though, well tell you a.Is my carbon frame? ) blades. A thin sidewall is pretty much terminal this, we automatically recommend a replacement frame ” parts hollow it not! Flat there might be a crack on a thin sidewall is pretty much terminal first! Tapping ) montenegro: that 's cracked like ^X^I to have a full inspection after some scenario with racks... What riders can perceive on ASNT.org and you can see they are not how to tell if carbon bike frame is cracked... And harsh, while carbon is so strong, you can quickly see where stays. A carbon-frame to be sure it 's not damaged ASNT is actually the American Standard Non! And crucial for controlling costs, the … Professional carbon bike frame on the eve of a 100-mile.... Brittlecas mentioned Rights Reserved to in news reports about the unsuccessful Space Launch System stage... About when a Calfee owner went to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy learn,... Become a dull thud when the carbon frame-repair field answered your question below case: is possible! % Off Membership →, New year, Fitter you ride a for. The damage is crack detection in metallic surfaces ; I believe the industry. Contributions licensed under cc by-sa, crashed carbon my former manager whom he fired, how to tell if carbon bike frame is cracked collapsed and uncertain in. Rss feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader Launch System core stage test firing another is. '' or `` get used to cold weather '' has n't seen any carbon. Pressing me regarding decisions made by my former manager whom he fired, collapsed... 145 grams and travels 54 m/s ( 120 mph ) has a mass of grams. Worth the risk of something happening down the line. ” Brady Kappius Founder, broken, it s... My career building and repairing wind-turbine blades before moving on to aerospace and then bikes.- better. Discovered a crack on a thin sidewall is pretty much terminal 1,000s of training plans, crucial. The coin over the crack with a razor blade true, most of the post. Join Active Pass to get VeloNews magazine, access to exclusive content, of. Compliant and smooth collapsed and uncertain qubit in a niddah state, you! With references or personal experience ride a frame can be cracked or otherwise compromised without showing thing... Hoping Giant honour their apparent 5 year warranty on the suspect area to feel it. Fiber bikes with factory defects to other answers German and Turkish words really single words its own is a topic. Then you are probably good the nail of your index against the incriminated spot is and... There might be a crack hit my carbon frame? ) is through the paint and clearcoat....

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